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3.1 V6 missing and throwing code 13. Pleas Help! Posted By: chad8329 On: 03-10-2010 @ 19:52:31 Reply | Edit My 1992 Firebird all of a sudden started running rough, and then started missing badly. It misses slightly at idle and very badly when the gas is pushed. for some reason it misses worse when in drive and moving than it does in park reving. The Check Engine light also came on. I used the diagnostic key and it threw code 13. Code 13 says in my repair book that something is wrong with my O2 sensor circuit, its says that there could be a possible fault with the O2 sensor, throttle position sensor, short or open circuit, or defective ecm. Heres is a list of stuff I have changed within the last year! 1. fuel pump & sending unit 2. distrbutor cap/rotor/pickup coil 3. sparkplugs/wires/coil pack 4. air filter/ fuel filter 5. O2 sensor (after this problem) 6. TPS (after this problem) 7. sparkplug wires again (after this problem) 8. catilatic converter 9. alternater Ive always done routine maintenence (oil changes, etc) on time. I was told that my distributer cap could be cracked or my timing is off WHAT DO YOU THINK??? --  1992 Pontiac Firebird 3.1L V6 Auto 129,000 miles Dark Aqua Metallic [ Edited on 02/12/2008 @ 01:02:17 ] Posted By: Storn On: 02-11-2008 @ 21:02:07 Reply | Top | Edit did those have a cam or crank sensor?... ignition coil?... egr valve fubarred... to check if the ecm is screwing up timing you could always bypass it and run on base timing to see if that helps, but for some reason it seems unlikely... --  
2001 V6 5speed 180* thermostat, whisper lid, magnaflow high flow cat and cat-back, 2 kicker comp vrs, 4 infinity reference 6012's with amps for each... Posted By: chad8329 On: 02-12-2008 @ 22:07:29 Reply | Top | Edit I'm not sure if it has a crank/cam sensor. Is that the symptoms of a failing coil pack? ,mine is fairly new "1yr" Can an EGR really affect it that much? arrg, im so stressed right now! [ Edited on 02/11/2008 @ 22:08:12 ] -- 1992 Pontiac Firebird 3.1L V6 Auto 129,000 miles Dark Aqua Metallic [ Edited on 02/12/2008 @ 01:01:17 ] Posted By: HBHRacing On: 02-11-2008 @ 22:12:10 Reply | Top | Edit unplug one injector harness at a time and note the RPM drop. The one or ones that drops the least or not at all are the cyls that contain the miss. -- Owner of HBHRacing.com Xtreme performance products Click for new Fbody Tech Articles  Posted By: Storn On: 02-12-2008 @ 00:02:08 Reply | Top | Edit i was going to suggest a drop test, ive just never done it manually like that, always used a scanner...guess thats what you get for being born in my time period... and im not sure if egr actually throws miss codes, tho i have seen it severely screw up how a vehicle runs/drives... --
2001 V6 5speed 180* thermostat, whisper lid, magnaflow high flow cat and cat-back, 2 kicker comp vrs, 4 infinity reference 6012's with amps for each... Posted By: chad8329 On: 02-12-2008 @ 00:47:13 Reply | Top | Edit what are some ways to test an EGR valve? can you just unplug it and see if stuff goes back to normal??? Thanks for all the help! I really appreciate it. -- 1992 Pontiac Firebird 3.1L V6 Auto 129,000 miles Dark Aqua Metallic [ Edited on 02/12/2008 @ 01:01:32 ] Posted By: chad8329 On: 02-12-2008 @ 12:08:03 Reply | Top | Edit My Caps Lock Button Is Broken --
1992 Pontiac Firebird 3.1L V6 Auto 129,000 miles Dark Aqua Metallic Posted By: chad8329 On: 02-12-2008 @ 12:26:25 Reply | Top | Edit EDIT: NEW QUESTION: This morning I went out and fiddled under the hood, and I noticed that the map sensor was slightly unplugged, so I pushed it back in. I also unplugged the EGR but I noticed no difference in performance. The car did start running normally and the check engine light went off. I took it around the block and it was fine. WTF??? Why would it act horrible and misfire one day then the next day run ok? --
1992 Pontiac Firebird 3.1L V6 Auto 129,000 miles Dark Aqua Metallic Posted By: Storn On: 02-12-2008 @ 20:02:44 Reply | Top | Edit um, map sensor unplugged would cause bad things, its probably in the same harness as your tb and that other stuff your code reader pointed you in the direction of... if the car is running fine, you probably fixed it right there... --
2001 V6 5speed 180* thermostat, whisper lid, magnaflow high flow cat and cat-back, 2 kicker comp vrs, 4 infinity reference 6012's with amps for each... Posted By: chad8329 On: 02-14-2008 @ 00:29:36 Reply | Top | Edit yeah somethings still wrong with it though.  like if im goin down the road at around 40 and let off the gas my rpm gauge will drop down to like 450-500, the car will shudder and then it goes back up to around 900. it does this constantly when just coasting and the gas is not being pushed. it also stalled while coasting at around 20 mph, and the idle is rough. there is also an gas odor when its running.--
1992 Pontiac Firebird 3.1L V6 Auto 129,000 miles Dark Aqua Metallic Posted By: Storn On: 02-14-2008 @ 21:23:35 Reply | Top | Edit well there is probably an evap issue with the gas smell, tho i wouldnt put it to any actual problem, unless you are in fact leaking gas somewhere, which could cause drivability issues due to a lower than normal fuel pressure, but if it doesnt smell all of the time i would lean more toward some sort of evap problem, as for the tac doing what it is, my car does that sometimes also, i personally just think i need to clean my tb and iac (throttle body, idle air control) --
2001 V6 5speed 180* thermostat, whisper lid, magnaflow high flow cat and cat-back, 2 kicker comp vrs, 4 infinity reference 6012's with amps for each... Posted By: chad8329 On: 02-16-2008 @ 00:14:16 Reply | Top | Edit *UPDATE AGAIN* The car seems to be doing better each day. I was told that the computer has to "relearn" everything when you change sensor parts like the O2, TPS, and repluged MAP, hopefully this is true. It still idles rough, but it has idled rough for a long time. Maybe soon I will change the injectors....or have them purge cleaned, cause I think that they are a major culprit of the bad idle and occational hesitation. --
1992 Pontiac Firebird 3.1L V6 Auto 129,000 miles Dark Aqua Metallic Posted By: Storn On: 02-16-2008 @ 09:24:18 Reply | Top | Edit well before you just go replacing them you can still do like harlan said and try a drop test, you may only need to replace one, one is enough to ruin idle for sure --
2001 V6 5speed 180* thermostat, whisper lid, magnaflow high flow cat and cat-back, 2 kicker comp vrs, 4 infinity reference 6012's with amps for each... Posted By: chad8329 On: 02-16-2008 @ 23:27:18 Reply | Top | Edit is that a no-brainer procedure? can your just take the top of the manifold off to expose the harnesses? sorry to sound like a noob but ive never messed with injector stuff before.  --
1992 Pontiac Firebird 3.1L V6 Auto 129,000 miles Dark Aqua Metallic Posted By: Pocket On: 02-17-2008 @ 23:53:16 Reply | Top | Edit You cant do Harlans test on your 3.1 because you must remove the upper section of the intake to access the injectors/rail/wiring This makes testing the running the engine a bit tricky You can however still test them Remove the upper intake and unplug all the injectors Get a multimeter and ohm each injector Write down each reading I dont remember the exact reading they should have but you will notice a drop in the bad injector(s) If they are all +/- 2 ohms of each other then you dont have an issue here -- "If you have complete control over the damned thing, you're not going fast enough." - Carrol Smith
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