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Torque Arm Elimination

Posted By: SaD1ST1K On: 03-08-2008 @ 22:26:13 Reply | Edit

Im trying to get rid of the Torque arm so i can run the True Dual exhaust the way i want. My mechanic said something about "ladder bars." his explaination was blunt but it kinda made sense. Whats the easiest/most efficiant way away from this torque arm?
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All Free-mods, 160 tstat, Adjustable Fan Switch, & more to come

Posted By: Airbornec507 On: 03-08-2008 @ 23:15:20 Reply | Top | Edit

Spohn has the perfect torque arm. I run it now with my dual X-pipe system. Works great.

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Brothers 94 Camaro

95 383 Z28 w/CC306, P&P Heads(272cfm), 3600 VIG Stall, CPT Pro Race 4L60E, Moser 12 bolt, 1.601 60'(W/3200 Stall)
[ Edited on 03/08/2008 @ 23:15:40 ]

Posted By: SaD1ST1K On: 03-09-2008 @ 11:53:48 Reply | Top | Edit

can i get a link bro? im not really looking for a different torque tube. im trying to deplete it.

All Free-mods, 160 tstat, Adjustable Fan Switch, Spaced ICM & more to come

[ Edited on 03/09/2008 @ 11:54:21 ]

Posted By: Airbornec507 On: 03-09-2008 @ 12:25:30 Reply | Top | Edit

http://www.spohn.net

Doubtfull that you'l be able to delete the torque arm altogether as you will need something to stabalize the rear end as well wich is the main purpose of the torque arm.
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Brothers 94 Camaro

95 383 Z28 w/CC306, P&P Heads(272cfm), 3600 VIG Stall, CPT Pro Race 4L60E, Moser 12 bolt, 1.601 60'(W/3200 Stall)
[ Edited on 03/09/2008 @ 12:26:44 ]

Posted By: SaD1ST1K On: 03-09-2008 @ 12:38:22 Reply | Top | Edit

ok what well exactly will this other torque arm do that the factory 1 doesnt? it looks to be about the same?!
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All Free-mods, 160 tstat, Adjustable Fan Switch, Spaced ICM & more to come

Posted By: Airbornec507 On: 03-09-2008 @ 13:10:19 Reply | Top | Edit

This link here will explain: http://www.spohn.net/?action=product&pid=1020

Also where the y-pipes are going in that links pics you can build a custom x-pipe for duals. It also releives stresses from the tranny tail shaft which could crack the tranny and directs them directly into the body for better transfere.

Basically more room under the car and a much stronger shaft with a DS Safety loop that a lot of tracks requir.

Posted By: Injuneer On: 03-09-2008 @ 13:31:16 Reply | Top | Edit

The torque arm is the only thing that prevents the rear axle assembly from rotating under torque. Without the torque arm the pinion would rotate upward, ripping the driveshaft out of the end of the tranny.

You can substitute ladder bars. In effect, instead of a single long arm bolted to the front of the differential housing and running to the tailshaft of the tranny housing, you end up with two shorter arms that weld to the axle housings, and require mounts welded to the floor pan, maybe 1/2-way between the diff and the tranny.

Instead of a single arm down the middle of the driveshaft tunnel, you end up with two arms potentially blocking the routing of a true dual exhaust.

I've been at racing events where "stock-style" suspension meant you could not race with ladder bars on a 3rd Gen or 4th Gen.

There is no reason to change. "Stock style" rear supsensions, using the chassis front mount aftermarket torque arms, like the Spohn are pulling 1.2x and 1.3x 30-fts. These are low 8-second cars (not sure if the 7-second 4th Gens are using the "stock style" suspension.)

I'm not sure how much HP you will see with the X-pipe, but I doubt its enough to justify cobbling up a new suspension system that is going to require a huge learning curve to master.
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Fred - 1994 Formula - 381ci / 275-shot N2O / TH400+GV
Mods: http://members.aol.com/InjuneerZZ/Mod.htm
Step into my office: http://www.injuneer.com/images/photos/Interior/DCP03464a.jpg

Posted By: RedScreaminMachine On: 03-09-2008 @ 16:07:57 Reply | Top | Edit

^I've learned to listen to this guy. He knows what's up.
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Red 2002 Camaro Z28 M6
Couple Mods

Posted By: Airbornec507 On: 03-09-2008 @ 16:28:28 Reply | Top | Edit

^ditto
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Posted By: SaD1ST1K On: 03-09-2008 @ 16:33:42 Reply | Top | Edit

Well, i dont see why i couldnt go to maple grove on a friday night and have them say i CANT run because of a the diversion in the suspension. its just the idea of how it connects to the trans is what i find to be really stupid.

And by the way, my mechanic was looking at ur Mods page and was wondering why his Small block 350 663 dyno horse ran 9.53 @129 and you are only breaking 11's with 783 horse? with spray?

This is coming from him. not me man he just asked. but yet im a bit curious myself?
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All Free-mods, 160 tstat, Adjustable Fan Switch, Spaced ICM & more to come

[ Edited on 03/09/2008 @ 16:35:10 ]

Posted By: HBHRacing On: 03-09-2008 @ 16:45:05 Reply | Top | Edit

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Owner of HBHRacing.com Xtreme performance products
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Posted By: Airbornec507 On: 03-09-2008 @ 19:26:17 Reply | Top | Edit

Dood we're only tryin to help you out. Stop being a tool and trying to dime folks out when you don't even have your own facts straight. School yourself up a bit and stop relying on someone else to do your work for you as it appears.

What was mentioned by Fred is true. If you want to run in test and tune all your life that's great, set your car up however you want. For more restricted classes they don't allow certain suspention modifications, etc. etc. You have to get with your track on that. To every track their own and to every racer their own in that regard.

As I stated above through some of my posts by using the above torque arm you will eliminate the tranny from the equation.

Also it would be wise of you to try to learn from folks on the board instead of bash respected members of the board if you intend to get any useful information out of anyone.

Posted By: 95ttoplt1

On: 03-09-2008 @ 21:13:07 Reply | Top | Edit

Pete's Z bars will eliminate the torque arm. There is no link. Call Madman at Thunder Racing, they are about 400 bucks. They recommend keeping the torque arm as a back up in case one of the bars breaks. But there are people that run TA free.

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Posted By: Injuneer On: 03-09-2008 @ 21:44:48 Reply | Top | Edit

Look... I tried to help you.

First... I didn't say you couldn't run ladder bars at Maple Grove. Learn how to read. I said I have raced at events that required a "stock style" suspension, and that's not ladder bars. What part of that are you too dense too understand?

Second.... if you want to be different, go right ahead. If you don't mind people sniggling a little when you slip and slide all over the track, go for it. No skin off my nose.... as we used to say in the old days.

Yes, my car is a pig. I've only sprayed the 125-shot and only run 11.1 @ 128. I haven't raced the car in 3 years. I got sidetracked working with the suspension on George Baxter's low 8-second 30th SS convertible. I know what works. You don't. I was just trying to save you some time. But... I bow to your knowledge and intelligence.

Have a good day

Fred - 1994 Formula - 381ci / 275-shot N2O / TH400+GV
Mods: http://members.aol.com/InjuneerZZ/Mod.htm
Step into my office: http://www.injuneer.com/images/photos/Interior/DCP03464a.jpg

Posted By: SaD1ST1K On: 03-09-2008 @ 22:49:10 Reply | Top | Edit

it wasn't really a wise ass remark really at all. it was an honest question...what are u guys flipping out about. it just didn't make sense so i asked. Im sorry if it came off that way but sheesh.

thats why i said he was curius. i didnt really care but as he explained it i kinda wondered too.

Anyway, by the way 95ttoplt1 can i get a phone number by chance?

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All Free-mods, 160 tstat, Adjustable Fan Switch, Spaced ICM & more to come

[ Edited on 03/09/2008 @ 23:13:43 ]

Posted By: fergymoto

On: 03-10-2008 @ 10:54:09 Reply | Top | Edit

Do you really have spaced ICM listed as a mod or are my eyes playing tricks on me?
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1997 Trans Am WS6 ---
7.58 @ 90MPH 1.65 60' in the 1/8th
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Posted By: SaD1ST1K On: 03-10-2008 @ 12:51:42 Reply | Top | Edit

i dont see why its really an issue and yes i do. so what? listen, i wasnt here to "bash" anyone. listen before u respond:

1966 chevy 2 with a 350 at 663 engine dyno horse ran a 9.53 @129.

COMPARING TO:

1994 formula 381 making 78x Horsepower only ran a 11.13...

That was the question. NO "bashing" here. Quit playing cut-throat with me. it was a respectable question.
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All Free-mods, 160 tstat, Adjustable Fan Switch, Spaced ICM & more to come

Posted By: Injuneer On: 03-10-2008 @ 16:50:03 Reply | Top | Edit

Hey dim bulb..... learn how to read before you even think about opening your mouth. What part of this quote from my website do you not understand:

PERFORMANCE:

Only track passes were made at 3,760# race weight, with a 125-shot:

Best ET/MPH: 11.16@127.6MPH
Best 60-foot: 1.63-seconds

Those performance figures, as clearly stated, are for a 500 flywheelHP normally aspirated, emissions legal (tailpipe test) motor, with a 125-shot of nitrous = 625 flywheel HP, or 505 rwHP through a loose converter TH400. The nitrous fired about 60-ft out of the hole. It ran 127.6 MPH.... totally consitant with that HP level. It clearly states on the website that the performance numbers are for a 125-shot.

The engine dyno'd 763 flywheel HP with a 275-shot. With some tweeking, we got it up to 800 flywheel HP... 300-shot. It has never been down the track with a 275-shot, or a 300-shot.

It also ran 11.5 @ 117mph on straight motor when it was a 6-speed.

You're the one that appears to have reading deficit disorder, or maybe its your ace mechanic. I'm not sure why you even bother coming here, asking us for help, when you have the expert "mechanic" guiding you. He should be all you need.

Really sorry I even tried to help you... next time I'll know better and ignore you.

Have a nice day.

Posted By: SaD1ST1K On: 03-10-2008 @ 19:39:52 Reply | Top | Edit

Well, if a simple question of times not making sense results to this. i dont really want your help.

There was no need for this to blow up in general, how old are you anyway? when u find 1 "bashing" remark in what i asked then maybe it is you being the illiterate 1.

oh i almost forgot. "...slipping and sliding all over the track.." how would that be possible when in cases these "ladder bars" are being called "traction bars."

Have a nice day.
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All Free-mods, 160 tstat, Adjustable Fan Switch, Spaced ICM & more to come

[ Edited on 03/10/2008 @ 19:42:27 ]

Posted By: ScreaminEagle91 On: 03-10-2008 @ 21:56:12 Reply | Top | Edit

WHOA WHOA WHOA! We are not here to bash eachother. Correct me if I am wrong, but i believe F-body owners to be somewhat of a "brotherhood" for lack of a better word. And as "brothers" we should all be out here to help eachother. Ive gotten more help from this website than any other person or place. People like Fred, who has oodles of experience with LTx and LSx motors, make me constantly return to this website when I come across issues with my Z28 (and owning a F-body, I have ALOT of issues haha) Anyway, I think these arguments that show up on these forums are pointless and shouldn't take place. Lets all just agree that our Firebird/TA/Z28s are awesome, and that Mustangs Suck. Have a Nice Day! HAHA
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1995 Camaro Z-28... air-foil, CAI, and Cat-delete, more to come!

Posted By: SaD1ST1K On: 03-13-2008 @ 22:33:29 Reply | Top | Edit

Hey Troy can i get a pick of them Z bars. i think im gonna put them in or something like that when i put the 4.10's in. i just wanna know/see how they work, where they connect to and etc. so i can compare to the other choices i have at the moment. thanks
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All Free-mods, 160 tstat, Adjustable Fan Switch, MSD Cap & Rotor & the 4.10's are next

Posted By: 95ttoplt1

On: 03-13-2008 @ 23:56:40 Reply | Top | Edit

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=562337&highlight=petes+z+bars
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Posted By: jumper297 On: 03-14-2008 @ 11:41:58 Reply | Top | Edit

but i believe F-body owners to be somewhat of a "brotherhood" for lack of a better word

You obviously haven't read too many of this guy's posts. I'm all for helping a fellow fbody owner out to a point but I'm not going to beat my head against a wall when someone continually refuses to listen when people try to explain something to him and especially when he started the shit by making idiotic comments to one of the most repected members on the forum, who as also trying to help him. The "brotherhood" would be better off if he sold his car.
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95 Formula 1 of 7,448

"Life is too short to drive a slow car."

Posted By: 95ttoplt1

On: 03-14-2008 @ 19:09:26 Reply | Top | Edit

Enough guys. If you can't say something nice...

Back on topic.

The only place I know to get Pete's Z bars is through Thunder Racing. If you call them they will get ya hooked up. I don't have there number but google would.
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Posted By: Dpitts88 On: 03-14-2008 @ 20:35:52 Reply | Top | Edit

i have read almost all of this kids post and when people try to help him out all he does is bash there ideas and the knowledge. if you already know then y ask is all i am trying to say.

Posted By: SaD1ST1K On: 03-14-2008 @ 22:49:12 Reply | Top | Edit

Thanks Troy and if u guys who are still hung up on that question then all i have to say is if u dont like it, dont read it?

The only time i did bash in my eyes is was the V6 section. granit was pretty immature but if you guys are gonna hold grudges for no appearent reason. sorry?

and no i dont know it all. This is my First F-body im trying to make power out of. the only motor stuff i ever did was top end kits with my mechanic that i have now on older, carb cars.

This LT is a very different design such as the distributor and torque arm along with many other things. thats why im here. to ask people if their more advanced knowlages of F-bodys the things i DONT know.

i do body work and am trying to learn f-bodys. thats my story and im stickin with it.
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All Free-mods, 160 tstat, Adjustable Fan Switch, MSD Cap & Rotor & the 4.10's are next

Posted By: n20ta2 On: 03-21-2008 @ 23:20:35 Reply | Top | Edit

First of all why would you want to switch out a torque arm suspension for a low slung duel exhaust thats not going to give you any more power then a nice single 4 inch system from say mufflex? What Fred says is true ladder bars are not easy to tune and your car will not ride worth a darn with em installed,guys like Troy Pirez senior and junior look for cars to build like 3rd gen camaro's just because the torque arm is easy to tune and works well.I wouldnt argue with record setting high 5 sec 1/8 mile e/t's on drag radials either.As far as Fred's 1/4 mile times,think about how much lighter a 1st gen nova is compared to a 4th gen firebird.Big difference! and freds also has to pass emmisions while your buddy's doesnt.
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9" ford 4.10 gears turbo 350 with reverse pattern v-body and t-brake 14:1 comp 420 ci gen 1 dart cnc pro 1's dominator carb
225 NOS shot 9.10@155 1.35 60ft SOLD and missing it!!New project 69 GTO building for pump gas drags!!!

Posted By: dboy2 On: 04-28-2008 @ 12:57:35 Reply | Top | Edit

Personally, I would be very happy to run a 11.1 at 127 m.p.h. I would be happy to have a Drag Strip close enough that I wouldn't have to reserve a Motel Room just to see & do a little racing!

Posted By: hot_red_z28 On: 04-28-2008 @ 13:25:24 Reply | Top | Edit

Come on guys, we all know Fred doesn't know what he's talking about!

For what it's worth, which probably isn't much... It is possible to run a dual exhaust without removing or relocating or modifying the torque arm... You can either not join the two sides together and run them straight back, or you can put an X-pipe in front of the transmission... I don't have any pics, but I have seen someone do it before and I believe it was posted up on this site...

Clearance will become an issue, and as stated above a dual may look cool, but it's really not much more performant than a nice 3-4 inch single with dual tips... Especially for a street car...

-Garrett
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[ Edited on 04/28/2008 @ 13:29:01 ]

Posted By: JUSTBAD On: 05-05-2008 @ 11:02:43 Reply | Top | Edit

nice ride

Posted By: ryguy_45832 On: 05-05-2008 @ 23:35:44 Reply | Top | Edit

Duals become a serious problem when you start considering suspension options. Such as tq arms and driveshaft loops. I wish I would've tackled the suspension first and then the exhaust second otherwhise you'll just be redoing the exhaust over again to work around the suspension components.
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94z28 13.0@109 (still tweaking) best 60ft:2.22