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Witch manifold? Posted By: dkbikes4life4130 On: 01-02-2008 @ 22:34:46 Reply | Edit I'm thinking about getting a new intake manifold soon. My two main choices right now are the Edelbrock RPM Performer Air-Gap or the the World Motown single plane. I'm looking at these two because they are an air-gap design and have 4 corner cooling ports. Just not sure if I should go to a bigger single plane or if the Edelbrock would be better. What do ya'll think? And I already know that I have to get a cowl hood. I was going to anyways. --  [ Edited on 12/03/2007 @ 22:35:29 ] Posted By: PongoX11 On: 12-03-2007 @ 22:53:51 Reply | Top | Edit 
Sorry  -- Former ride: 531RWHP/477RWTQ Only bolt ons! ...technically everything used a bolt to install Posted By: dkbikes4life4130 On: 12-03-2007 @ 22:57:10 Reply | Top | Edit I knew someone was going to do something like that  -- Posted By: RedLT4Mike On: 12-04-2007 @ 00:16:32 Reply | Top | Edit Judging from your sig, you should go single plane -- 383ci. // LE2-LT4 Heads-Intake, Joe O. 234,246 .573 .565 109 lsa CSR WaterPump // Centerline Telstars w/28in. MT ET Street Radials Moser 9in. 4.11's // 6-Speed w/RamPGHD // B&M Ripper Shifter // NX Wet  Posted By: 95ttoplt1 On: 12-04-2007 @ 06:42:57 Reply | Top | Edit I would have to disagree, I don't think you have nearly enough cam or stall to justify a single plain. I think the RPM air gap would be the best choice. --  Posted By: cmerc On: 12-04-2007 @ 06:51:51 Reply | Top | Edit pongo FTW --  Posted By: WickedS6 On: 12-04-2007 @ 07:29:13 Reply | Top | Edit Single plane. Your stall is 3500, dual plane only helps below ~3k. unless your seriously worried about your 2500 rpm idle quality... -- 03 GSX-R 750. thats it. No F-Body. Nothing cool and flashy, just a bike. WickedS6 Circa 2001 Posted By: Green97TAMachine On: 12-04-2007 @ 08:34:11 Reply | Top | Edit I'm with troy. Not enough cam for a single plane. He would have minimal torque gains with the single plane and a huge hp loss. The air-gap would keep things more even for his combo. CHP did a buuild about 3 months ago and showed the difference between single and dual plane on a mild cast and aluminum headed 350. Thats what I'm basing my comment on. -- 1997 Mystic Teal Trans Am, M6, Leather, Hardtop. TB Bypass, CAI, Pacesetter LT's, Flowmaster 80 Series !CATS, !AIR/E.G.R., !CAGS, And a PCM tune done by Thunder Racing. Posted By: Lukn4Trbl On: 12-04-2007 @ 11:43:13 Reply | Top | Edit Brannon, What are your plans for the engine? Are you trying to set a 1/4 mile personal best, or want to have a street driver with good throttle response, and off line acceleration? Your set up is actually better suited for a single plane above 4000 RPM, however the displacement is a touch on the low side for the head runner volume. What is the compression ratio? There is a slight mismatch happening for a dual plane, but it would perform better on the street than a single plane. -- Welcome to the Internet, where everyone's a mechanic and has a 10 second car. 
2000 Camaro SS, 6 Speed, Black/Black. Going for low 12's! 1980 Z28 - Miss ya buddy! Posted By: dkbikes4life4130 On: 12-04-2007 @ 12:46:04 Reply | Top | Edit The car is mainly a fast street car. I do fully plan on taking it to the track maybe once or month or so but its main function is a fun street car. I also plan on putting a solid roller cam in with a little more lift and a little less duration. When I bought that cam in my sig, I was trying to build an 11:1 compression motor and it didnt work. My CR is actually about 10:1. Because of the stall I have right now (which I love), I dont spend much time below 2500 RPM's. -- Posted By: dkbikes4life4130 On: 12-04-2007 @ 12:52:54 Reply | Top | Edit Thats why I'm kinda stuck between these two manifolds. The single plane is bigger than what I have now, but still a smaller single plane. It says it has a rpm range of 2500-6500 I think. But then like Green97TAMachine said, I have heard a lot of very good things about the Air-Gap manifold. I have a small single plane on it right now and with the stall, the car will almost sit still and spin the tires. Would the Air-Gap give me even more low end than my Torker II? -- Posted By: Lukn4Trbl On: 12-04-2007 @ 13:07:39 Reply | Top | Edit It's tough to say, without a track pass back to back. I would spend the time and at least do some dyno testing between both manifolds. It doesn't take all that much to swap an intake. Just make sure it's port matched to the heads. In theory, the dual plane will help lower RPM response and move the torque peak lower. Alternatively, it could hurt the top end power. If it was my motor, I would leave the Torquer II and get some plenum work done. There is good power to be made with the T II for your set up. Right now, the weak point of your combo is the cylinder head volume. What size chamber did you go with? Less duration with a solid is a great idea. You'll make awesome power gains with a solid set up. -- Welcome to the Internet, where everyone's a mechanic and has a 10 second car.
2000 Camaro SS, 6 Speed, Black/Black. Going for low 12's! 1980 Z28 - Miss ya buddy! Posted By: dkbikes4life4130 On: 12-04-2007 @ 17:03:37 Reply | Top | Edit The combustion chamber is a 65cc chamber. I was wanting to switch manifold cuz I want to do the rear to front coolant lines on top of the intake because I live in Florida and it gets to over 100 degrees here sometimes, so I figured I should do everything I could. I am also having problems with heat soak into the carb. I am going to get a cowl hood and get rid of the drop base on the air filter to let a little bit more fresh air get to the carb. This is why I was also leaning towards the air gap design. -- Posted By: Lukn4Trbl On: 12-04-2007 @ 17:08:36 Reply | Top | Edit Cowl hood is a great idea for cooler air, and also getting rid of the drop base filter. Drop bases are terrible for air flow into the carb. Do you have a spacer between the carb and manifold? Once you get a new cowl, you will have enough room to insert a spacer. I had one on my engine, and I could easily rest my hand on the fuel bowls after a few hard passes down the track. Do those heads happen to have exhaust cross-over ports? If so, did you block them with steel plates before installing the intake manifold? -- Welcome to the Internet, where everyone's a mechanic and has a 10 second car.
2000 Camaro SS, 6 Speed, Black/Black. Going for low 12's! 1980 Z28 - Miss ya buddy! Posted By: dkbikes4life4130 On: 12-04-2007 @ 19:21:37 Reply | Top | Edit No, the heads have no crossover. Also, there is no spacer becuase with my current setup, I had to take the heat blanket off the underside of the hood and also cut and bend in the ribbing on the underside of the hood. With all that, I only have about 1/2 inch between the top of the filter and the hood. -- Posted By: Lukn4Trbl On: 12-04-2007 @ 19:34:59 Reply | Top | Edit Consider this: Build your hood around the engine. Don't sacrifice power for form (function over form always). If you're OK with a cowl hood look, then you're way ahead of the game. Invest in an insulator for the carb., and raise the filter base for increased air flow. At that point, I would consider the options for intakes, however don't just slap one on the motor. Dyno test, or even think about the plenum work I suggested. P.S. Port matching is your friend. -- Welcome to the Internet, where everyone's a mechanic and has a 10 second car. 2000 Camaro SS, 6 Speed, Black/Black. Going for low 12's! 1980 Z28 - Miss ya buddy! [ Edited on 12/04/2007 @ 19:35:36 ] Posted By: davidr On: 12-04-2007 @ 21:02:47 Reply | Top | Edit Duai plane is the best for street use , and it works well at the track . It will work well with your motor . -- 
95 Z28 purchased new . c.a.i. trick flow elbow ,58mm t-body and ported manifold . hypertech power program , crane springs and crane gold 1.6 rollers . 3 inch exhaust no cat , bbk headers and MSD wires and Iridium plugs . Also an Edelbrock 3 point strut tower brace . Posted By: dkbikes4life4130 On: 12-04-2007 @ 21:06:05 Reply | Top | Edit Thats what I was starting to think too. Rather than getting a new intake right now, I should get the hood and a phelonic (sp?) spacer for the carb and the flat base for the filter. Then get the intake. I was also thinking about how well a port matched RPM Air-Gap with a spacer on top would work. If maybe the dual plane would help on the street but the spacer may raise the rpm band a little for more top end power. -- Posted By: maxwax On: 12-04-2007 @ 21:23:01 Reply | Top | Edit To start with ,It looks like you have some good parts, but 200cc canfield's are a little much for an engine below 383 cubes. but you have a cam that could make them work on a bored 350, what is the cams centerline ground on ? if over 110, you need to advance the cam by degreing it, go at least 4 degrees advance, so it brings the power range a little lower , so it can work with the intake you already have , and it should work well with the 3.50 gears. If you go with a single plane intake you will most likely need 4.10 gears , and set the cam straight up. and if you want a 4 hole moroso spacer fury777 and myself have one on e-bay for cheap ,bidding just started today. --  Posted By: dkbikes4life4130 On: 12-04-2007 @ 21:41:43 Reply | Top | Edit The cam I have now is on a 106 center line with a 110 LSA. The intake I have now is a single plane though, just really small. -- Posted By: maxwax On: 12-04-2007 @ 21:53:52 Reply | Top | Edit Yes if it is a torkerII it has small runners and builds velocity in the 2400 to 5500 rpm range, a performer RPM not the air gap would work well on that combination, with no hood clearance problems,did you have the cam degreed when the engine was built? and what compression ratio are you running. -- Posted By: dkbikes4life4130 On: 12-04-2007 @ 22:00:07 Reply | Top | Edit No, I didnt degree the cam. I know that was a no-no on my part. When I get the solid roller I want, I will degree that. The compression ratio is about 10:1 -- Posted By: Lukn4Trbl On: 12-04-2007 @ 22:08:18 Reply | Top | Edit "I was also thinking about how well a port matched RPM Air-Gap with a spacer on top would work. If maybe the dual plane would help on the street but the spacer may raise the rpm band a little for more top end power." Dual plane intakes (180 degree) effectively cut the cam overlap in half, so what little you might gain from the spacer is already chopped from the dual plane plenum. The only saving point is that you may (or may not) gain more average power below 3500 RPM...however your combo isn't set up to use that range: - 3500 Stall - 200 cc runners - large duration cam - bore/stroke , cubic inch I would be surprised if the dual plane helped at all, but I wouldn't be bold enough to say otherwise. There are just too many surprises with how engines respond to part changes. That's why I'm saying dyno, or back to back track passes to know for sure. My opinion stays with the hood and filter base. Re-work the current manifold for even more power. -- Welcome to the Internet, where everyone's a mechanic and has a 10 second car. 2000 Camaro SS, 6 Speed, Black/Black. Going for low 12's! 1980 Z28 - Miss ya buddy! [ Edited on 12/04/2007 @ 22:13:28 ] Posted By: fast82Z On: 12-04-2007 @ 23:27:43 Reply | Top | Edit Maybe not exactly what you'd want to do, but I like some of the stuff Wilson Manifolds is making. They have a tappered 4 into 1 carb. spacer that I've seen give some great power in the neighborhood of 20-30hp. The other thing I saw is that they make a multiple section composite intake, probably similar to abs plastic. It also includes an internal routing of the rear coolant up to the front. -- 1982 Z28, 383, D-1SC intercooled @ 10psi, trick flow heads, solid roller cam, 3.73's, stall 9.97@137, 1.48 60', 633rwhp@7400, 472rwtq@6800 AIM:CHATV400   Posted By: 95ttoplt1 On: 12-05-2007 @ 08:40:11 Reply | Top | Edit The Wilson manifold is sweet but not available yet. I am waiting, it should be about another 6 weeks, but the cool thing about the Wilson is the fact that it is composite and is modeled after there fully ported aluminum manifold so no porting would be neccesary. When you figure this in its a bargin at 800 bucks. I can't get them to tell me what it is made of though. I will be getting a raised runner version to match my 245cc All-Pro's when they become available and drilling and mounting injector bosses. The Wilson Composite is only available in a single plain configuration as of now. If you are going to a cowl hood I think the RPM Air-gap with a phenolic spacer(4 into 1 tapered) would be the best for you situtation. I think the gains of a larger single plain would start happening right when you plan on shifting right about where you plan on shifting(6500 I'm gussing). The single plain will also cause you fuel puddling problems on the street in a carb application where you cruise. I know you have a 3500 stall, I have a 3000 currently and I'm pretty sure your not always above 3500 rpm everywhere ya go. If so you'd be tearing that thing apart every year for a refresh. Just my .02 -- Posted By: Lukn4Trbl On: 12-05-2007 @ 09:30:51 Reply | Top | Edit Just for the record, I want to highlight that I'm not promoting that a single plane is better than a dual plane in this application. It may, or may not be. I'd hate to see him swap an intake manifold when there are other factors to be cleared up beforehand. The reason I'm bumping this up is because his engine combo is very similar to mine. I had a Torquer II on my 80 Z28, with very similar supporting components. My camshaft was also damn close with a 242 duration, 0.517" lift, 110 LCA , but dialed to a 109 centerline (Comp Cam 292H-10) The car went 12.9@110 on street tires (1.99 sixty foot), and weighed 3761 lbs. race weight. Fuel puddling was not an issue. With a good carb, the atomization is great. I would guess his Demon would do a better job than my 4150 Holley for breaking up fuel as well. The HP peak occured at 5870 RPM and didn't nose over until after 6150 RPM. 
-- Welcome to the Internet, where everyone's a mechanic and has a 10 second car.
2000 Camaro SS, 6 Speed, Black/Black. Going for low 12's! 1980 Z28 - Miss ya buddy! Posted By: 95ttoplt1 On: 12-05-2007 @ 11:26:57 Reply | Top | Edit I agree with you Tino, But I think the only Single plain he could get away with would be the Torker II due to the smaller plenum and runners. I think if he goes bigger(which practically any other single plain is) he will lose drivability and torque and his velocitys will suffer and lead to fuel puddling at cruise. If he had more cam, gear, and stall then I would lean toward the single. IMP Single plain intakes are not ideal on MOST carbed street motors. I think for a performance gain the Air Gap would be the ticket. I would expect it pick-up all around and maintain the streetability, I can't say that about going to bigger single. -- Posted By: Lukn4Trbl On: 12-05-2007 @ 11:58:50 Reply | Top | Edit I can't agree with you more Troy, especially about the Torquer, and uses for single planes. An Air Gap would likely pick up more than a bigger single because of the small displacement and 6000 RPM window. At the moment, I would estimate the T II plenum volume is about right for his top end setup goals, whereas a dual plane would lower the MPH potential (HP peak, and top end HP) The T II is a good middle ground for streetability and strip use. Here's a somewhat useful guideline for comparing Dual, Single and Tunnel Ram on a small cube street motor. http://www.jason.fletcher.net/tech/intakes/intakes.htm It's based on a Ford 5.0 L crate engine, however you can see the trending of dual planes above 4000 RPM and how they kill the power curve. You will also note the baby cam used to test with all of these manifolds which is better suited for dual. -- Welcome to the Internet, where everyone's a mechanic and has a 10 second car. 2000 Camaro SS, 6 Speed, Black/Black. Going for low 12's! 1980 Z28 - Miss ya buddy! [ Edited on 12/05/2007 @ 12:00:03 ] Posted By: dkbikes4life4130 On: 12-05-2007 @ 12:21:05 Reply | Top | Edit Well all of this talking has made me think about my current setup. Mostly the part where a lot of people have said that my heads are too big for my small motor. With that said, I think I am going to get the hood, filter base, and spacer and maybe work the manifold over a little with a port match. Then I will probably start to build a 406 short block which I will plan out a little better than I did my current shortblock. I figure the extra cubes will allow my heads to work better and give me more choices when it comes to cams and manifolds while making power and retaing driveability. -- Posted By: maxwax On: 12-05-2007 @ 23:13:38 Reply | Top | Edit   This is my 1974 Z/28 3500 lbs, 406 small block world products 200cc runners, victor Jr. th400 tci super street fighter 3500 converter 4.10 gear 750 hp holley carb 305 custom solid comp cams 106 cl 252in 256 ex dur @50 512in 525ex lift @50w/ 1.6 Harland sharp roller rockers, 3" full length exhaust Flow master American thunder package. -- -- [ Edited on 12/05/2007 @ 23:15:45 ] Posted By: dkbikes4life4130 On: 12-06-2007 @ 12:55:02 Reply | Top | Edit I think that the 406 just may be the best option then. What is the compression ratio on that motor? Also, how streetable is it? Are there any overheating problems? This is important to me because mine is going to be mainly a street car. Also, what does that time equal to in the 1/4? In the 10's or 11's? -- [ Edited on 12/06/2007 @ 12:55:48 ]
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