I think if you listen to his entire message it starts to make sense.

his message BY ITSELF is great, but if you start considering power relations and such, it makes no sense. im going to look around to see if i can find any of my old international security books, because they really do a good job at explaining what happens given different situations of which countries have power.

remember that ultimately, a president does not make all the decisions. in the end, a president has to be a strong frontman for the government. yeah, we need someone with good ideas, but they dont have to look like the reincarnation of christ. ron paul is talking about all of these huge things he will accomplish... it wont happen.
--

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2048599
2002 v6 camaro- Texas Speed and Performance Rumbler catback, Whisper lid, K&N filter, FRA mod, wet 50 shot, Pacesetter headers, drilled/slotted rotors.
180* thermostat (waiting for a sunny day)

Right, and that is the part of politics that I don't get, the powerful relationships. Ie, I admittedly don't quite understand "lobby groups" or why anyone listens to them. I don't quite understand what a political action committee is, I don't even understand why campaign contributions are needed, and I don't understand why the current president/administration should be bound by treaties signed by another administration. For example, if I start a new job tomorrow, and the software engineer before me promised the boss that the software would make pigs fly, I'm not going to keep that promise. So why does the new president have to be part of the UN, which is something some previous employee of the US agree to? Likewise, in the past, some president decided that we shouldn't talk to Cuba for some reason and we should talk to Saudi Arabia. Maybe the new president doesn't want to talk to either and instead only wants to talk to only Austria and Madagascar, not even our old allies like Britain and Canada, why is he expected to maintain old relations? And why can't the president get anything done? We are supposed to have a 3 house system of checks and balances. If the president wants to bring all of our troops home, and Congress doesn't like that idea, isn't it the supreme court's job to determine if it is the president, or congress, that is following the constitution/law? It seems that for many years we've been stuck in a system where the house says X, the senate says Y and the presidents vetos both cause he wants Z and we the people get nothing we want. Then since the legislative and executive branches are doing nothing, the judicial branch gets bored and hears cases related to (gay) marriage and abortion, which both seem to be religious issues, but there is supposed to be a separation of church and state. Why does marriage even require a legal license and why does divorce require the same? Why isn't marriage viewed as a church thing and nothing more? If your church permits marriage, you get married, if not, you don't get married, it seems like the government only cares because they get a few $s if they care, then tax you differently, and then collect a few more $s when you divorce. But based on this, can't the christian "sacrament"of marriage be replace by the sacrament of baptism and then anyone who is baptized has to be taxed as such?

Again, I just don't understand many of the relationships between other countries, lobby groups, religious groups, etc and issues that politicians talk about, but I also think that the direction this country has taken recently isn't the direction I'd like to keep seeing it go. I'm not sure if Ron Paul is the answer, I don't think Hillary is the answer, I don't think Thomson or Guiliani are the answer. I just need more info and a better understand I guess.

--
Jim Hogan - http://www.TXStock.com
- 98 Navy Blue TA w/Moser 12 Bolt/TH400 & Gear Vendor OD
- 00 Navy Blue WS6 Convertible

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Posted By: stevethepirate On: 10-16-2007 @ 01:09:40     Reply | Top | Edit

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jim, it sounds like you really have your head in the right place. i dont think that anyone knows right know what the right answer is. thats what is so hard. we all know exactly what we dont want, but its really hard to figure out what we do want.

pending interest, we should make a thread devoted to information on the candidates. with small blurbs on their platforms, and updates whenever possible. i love this stuff, its definitely my passion in life. so its cool to see that some other people are also interested! the biggest thing that separates the US from the rest of the world (mainly europe that im thinking of) is that people in europe actually care about politics. they show up to vote. people here traditionally just dont care! its going to be a nice day when you can strike up an educated political debate with a random person on the street.
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2048599
2002 v6 camaro- Texas Speed and Performance Rumbler catback, Whisper lid, K&N filter, FRA mod, wet 50 shot, Pacesetter headers, drilled/slotted rotors.
180* thermostat (waiting for a sunny day)

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Posted By: 1988irocz On: 10-16-2007 @ 02:34:49     Reply | Top | Edit

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I am not a big fan of politics but I have come to realise that one problem with "my/our" generation is that we don't seem to care. So maybe I should start caring a little bit.

I do not identify with either party, I feel like in the end they all are pretty much for the same thing, themselves. Maybe when they started in politics they wanted to make a difference but by the time they get to presidential hopefuls they are tainted. Tainted by the lobbyists that run the government. Tainted by their own personal greed. Tainted by the fact that with power, comes the lust for more power. The need to feed the ego, and be remembered, not always for something good, just to have their fifteen minutes so to speak.


With that said, this is going to be a epic year in the history of our country, there is an actual chance that we will have a woman president or a black president. Just ten years ago, it seemed like we were a long way from anything like that happening. I hope that goes to show that our country is finally coming around to accepting everyone as equals. It may say in our constitution that all men are created equal, but it hasn't ever actually been that way.

I am surprised, because of all the immigration issues going on, America seems like more of a racist country everyday. The fact that the democratic party even feels like these two have a chance says alot about that state of our nation, and I have to admit, I am hopeful.
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Posted By: jumper297 On: 10-16-2007 @ 12:17:25     Reply | Top | Edit

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I completely disagree with the immigration issue being linked to racism. There are some fundemental responsibilities of the government that are being completely ignored by allowing a flood of uncontrolled, illegal immigration to cross the border. Securing the borders is one of the primary rights and duties of a sovereign nation. Not only is this crippling out social services it is an extremely dangerous gateway for anyone that may want to bring in people or things that we would typically want to keep out. (ie: terrorists, weapons, drugs, gangs)

I can't believe this is even a debate, with more and more rights being afforded to non-citizens everyday. The democrats love the votes and the republicans love the cheap labor. Its a classic case of government turning its back on the necessities of the nation to pander to the wealthy and powerful.

As far as the election goes... I would vote for Rice in a heartbeat. I've been impressed with her since before she even served in this administration so I don't feel race or gender are even a factor in how I would vote. I wouldn't vote for Clinton even if I had a gun to my head. I think Obama is probably the most sincere out of the dem candidates, but I'm not sure he has the experience yet. That and I don't agree with most of his politics.
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95 Formula 1 of 7,448

"Life is too short to drive a slow car."

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Posted By: 1988irocz On: 10-16-2007 @ 23:25:55     Reply | Top | Edit

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I was just making a comment I really don't feel like getting into an immigration chat. I don't feel alot of people have put much thought into their arguements here, they just agree with the majority. (Not a personal shot Jumper, just my opinion)

I think sex and race still play a huge issue in politics, the fact that are first minority canidates are upon us is amazing to me. It makes me feel hopeful for the future of our country.

I feel the problem with Rice is the same with all the canidates it seems, what lobbyists do they owe? The lobbyists and corporations seem to be the ones calling the shots here, not you and I.
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Posted By: Jim_Hogan   On: 10-17-2007 @ 09:33:54     Reply | Top | Edit

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I'm not sure that I would count women as a minority, flip of the coin makes them 50% of the world's population, in fact, females are statistically a little more than 50% of the population. I also think it's a TERRIBLE idea to vote for someone just because they are viewed as part of a minority.

I just want to know which candidate is going to hear the latest threat from china about giving some BS award to dalai lama and impose a federal boycott/embargo of all chinese goods as a US response. No country should be telling us what to do and we shouldn't feel intimidated by any other country. I'm tired of going to the store and seeing only chinese crap on the shelves. I spent about $30s more on a pair of shoes this weekend to get some Italian made shoes that I don't really even like, just because everything else was made in china.

We need independence from foreign oil, and we need independence from foreign products. We don't make any electronics in this country, the big American car companies are in the shitter - imagine if we had to spring into a full scale war machine like WWII - we don't even have a factory in this country that makes backpacks (go try to buy a US made backpack, I dare you), how are we to retool a factory to provide troops with gear? The GDP is sinking and it's because people are buying china made shit because it's a few dollars cheaper that better quality products made elsewhere, these same people are the ones bitching and moaning that the value of the US dollar is less than the value of a Canadian dollar and complaining that they can't earn an honest wage or find a decent, non-minimum wage, job. Someone at the top needs to start making some changes. You have companies like Sony/BMG (the RIAA) that are "US based" companies, and thus use the power of the US legal system to fine people for downloading music, but yet every one of their CDs is made in china. If these companies want to use the power of the US legal system and IP protection that the US offers, they should be required to make their products here. Same with Nike and Adidas, a HUGE Olympics sponsors and sponsors of US athletes - yet the gear that they provide to US athletes is made in china, or vietnam, but not a single item made here. Would seem simple enough to say "If you want to sponsor team USA, you must be a company that has over 90% of all operations and production facilities in the USA" and since your tax dollars and mine, through the US government, pays for the majority of Team USA's costs, it doesn't seem unreasonable
to ask that Team USA sponsors are based in the USA.

Again, just my $.02, but I want a candidate with some balls that is willing to turn shit around and do things differently and not just follow the current trend.

--
Jim Hogan - http://www.TXStock.com
- 98 Navy Blue TA w/Moser 12 Bolt/TH400 & Gear Vendor OD
- 00 Navy Blue WS6 Convertible

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Posted By: 2piececrank On: 10-21-2007 @ 23:09:36     Reply | Top | Edit

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I don;t know that we need complete independence from foreign oil, but instead we need to do like we did in the early/mid 1900's, which is tell everyone else that XYZ oil fields are ours, and because of all the ABC things we have done for them, we deserve that oil.

More practically, we need alternative fuels for everything but cars. Taking that 30% out of our national oil consumption would be huge. Promoting peace in the Middle East and Conservationist ideals will bring gas prices down. Gas prices have risen ~900% in 9 years, and tripled in the last 5 or so years. Some of this is from the demand for oil going up worldwide, but the US has not been helping at all. As much as Carter was a weak president, energy consumption did go down during due to his policies. Only with the return of the religious right (and more importantly the idea that we should use every resource available to us now) did oil prices sky rocket. If we don't begin to find an alternate way to power more or less everything, then we have fallen behind the curve, and given the manner in which the religious right operates, we are doomed.

"No leading world economic power has ever maintained itself on the cutting edge of innovation and development with a political coalition that panders to biblical inerrancy."
- Kevin Phillips, former Republican Strategist; Author
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1989 Silverado 4x4, 355cid, RV cam, 160 thermostat, Vortec Heads, Stainless Exhaust, Hypertech Chip
1980 T-top Camaro, In the works: 355 cid race prepped block, Eagle crank and SIR rods and KB flattop pistons, Weiand heads, TH350
http://www.cardomain.com/id/2piececrank

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Posted By: JerseyFrank On: 11-30-2007 @ 02:41:13     Reply | Top | Edit

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Bush was'nt so keen to the religious right...as I seen it gay people are gettin married and they really didn't want that.

Immigration...
First the english and the dutch came, Then the slaves came, everyone hated them.
Then the irish came, everyone hated them.
Then the italians came, everyone hated them.
on the west coast the chinese came, everyone hated them.
Russians, Polish, Middle-easterns...no one was keen on them.
Then the mexicans came, and everyone hated them.

its the natural progression...it does'nt seem out of place, they're just a little late to the party.
Throw em a cold one and give em a break. Once they have to pay taxes and do things the way everyone else does, they'll fit right in. Keeping them illegal and in the country is not good, so legalize em and tax their fruit picking money. Its not like we'll have to pay for them with our awesome universal health care and welfare system.

Oil?
they have it all planned out. one of them scandinavian countries is planning to switch over to a complete hydrogen system sometime this decade. Hybrid cars are more available than ever, and maybe things aren't getting as green as fast as they could, but its progressing.

The free market controls much more than any single president. When things become too hindering or costly, the technology will change, regardless of whose in office. at least thats how I feel bout it.




--
Current: 2004 Deville, bone stock livery.

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Posted By: Jeremiah On: 12-15-2007 @ 19:16:51     Reply | Top | Edit

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This is FAR from a "natural progression". They dont pay taxes and they dont fit in. Most of the illegals have the mind set that they are taking back what is theirs. Most all the immigrants that came from other countries did so LEGALLY.

I have no problem with immigrants or people who want to work here as long as they go through the right channels and pay taxes accordingly. They are crippling hospitals and schools across the country right now because they are coming faster than places like California can build schools...not to mention that since they arent paying taxes and sending all their money back to Mexico, they arent contributing to society in any way...and if you think that it will change if we make them legal, then we are in even bigger trouble than I thought. There are people that come here to work legally and they are more pissed off than ever because of this illegal immigration issue.

We are sitting on more than enough oil to run our country independently for hundreds of years. Hybrid cars are a complete disaster too. I'm all for doing what we can to clean up the environment, but when things are being introduced that do more harm than good(ie. hybrid cars), we are going the wrong direction.

I was kind of a Ron Paul fan until I watched the Republican debate on cnn or whatever it was a few weeks ago. He said he wants to pull out of Iraq because 65% of polled people say they want to...How is this leading? I'd love for us to quit helping all these countries that hate us, but since we are there, we can't just pull away because its the popular thing to do. I've kinda jumped on the Huckabee band wagon. His answer to a similar question was that he would meet and go with the recommendations of the people on the front line and the experts that deal with it on a daily basis..not the opinions of the media, people, or even congress.
--
**FOR SALE** 2005 GMC 1500HD 6.0L, dumped true duals - Flowmaster 50 series - 16.43@85.29
2006 Pontiac Grand Prix - 3.8L - bone stock

"if there was a way to internet punch u i would" - SilverRS96 on AIM(Misfits503)

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Posted By: JerseyFrank On: 12-16-2007 @ 21:15:21     Reply | Top | Edit

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I'd love for us to quit helping all these countries that hate us, but since we are there, we can't just pull away because its the popular thing to do

I just wanna disagree there.
Just because some people claim we can't leave, does'nt mean its true.

but more importantly, since when can't we follow the popular opinion? Isnt this whole thing set up on popular opinion? Was'nt that what George Washington faught for?The Revolution was pretty popular. We had a civil war over popular opinion. The country literally split in half, rich and poor,over a dispute in popular opinion. Lincolns opinion was to free the slaves, turned out to be a pretty popular move.

I figure if the popular opinion wants it..then the government should be working their ass off to make that populus happy. But they don't, because they don't care about popular opinion. Why? who knows...

So holding an ear to the public is an awesome thing.
--
Current: 2004 Deville, bone stock livery.
www.myspace.com/combattente

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Posted By: Jeremiah On: 12-18-2007 @ 17:05:39     Reply | Top | Edit

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The civil war had absolutly nothing to do with slavery...look it up. Yes slavery ended as a result of the war, but slavery was not the reason the civil war started.

Public opinion is not always best because the public is often(like now) misinformed by the media of what is actually going on...contrary to popular belief, we are winning this thing right now and doing wonderful things over there. But there will be a time to pull out and now isnt that time.
--
**FOR SALE** 2005 GMC 1500HD 6.0L, dumped true duals - Flowmaster 50 series - 16.43@85.29
2006 Pontiac Grand Prix - 3.8L - bone stock

"if there was a way to internet punch u i would" - SilverRS96 on AIM(Misfits503)

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Posted By: jumper297 On: 12-18-2007 @ 19:26:58     Reply | Top | Edit

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Who ever said the Revolutionary War was by popular consensus? That was something that was the result of a handful of visionaries who had the power to inspire people to follow them.

Ron Paul is too naive to be president, and most of what he's promising isn't in his power even if he got elected. Watching him during the debate proved that he lacks a certain fundamental understanding of what being president actually entails.

The immigration issue makes my head hurt. Securing the borders is one of the primary jobs of the federal government and they almost aggressively refuse to do anything about it, almost to the point of hampering the few agencies that are trying to do their jobs. This is nothing like the immigration from Europe. For one its simply a flood of undocumented people crossing an unprotected border. For another the country is no longer in a growth period, we're well established and entry controls are a necessity. It has nothing to do with prejudice or discriminations, its simply a matter of protecting our sovereignty.


--
95 Formula 1 of 7,448

"Life is too short to drive a slow car."

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Posted By: Jeremiah On: 12-20-2007 @ 02:16:52     Reply | Top | Edit

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^ well put.


Try getting a work visa to work in Australia....and dont even think about wanting to become a citizen unless you are prepared to jump through hoops. I admire their policys on this stuff.
--
**FOR SALE** 2005 GMC 1500HD 6.0L, dumped true duals - Flowmaster 50 series - 16.43@85.29
2006 Pontiac Grand Prix - 3.8L - bone stock

"if there was a way to internet punch u i would" - SilverRS96 on AIM(Misfits503)

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Posted By: stevethepirate On: 12-20-2007 @ 22:42:01     Reply | Top | Edit

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i dont like how hard it is to get a visa here in the states. i know a lot of very smart people who havent been able to get visas to come here to study.
One of our family friends (went to school with him in italy) went to UCSB for college. insanely smart guy. he has a hard time keeping his work visa here in the states....

huckabee would make a good church pastor. i dont want him leading my country though.
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2048599

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Posted By: jumper297 On: 12-20-2007 @ 22:44:46     Reply | Top | Edit

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^ Agreed on Huckabee.

I would love to see a overhaul of the immigration system. That has to come from congress and hopefully we'll have a president with some foresight to ratify or veto the bill in the best interest of the country and not special interests.
--
95 Formula 1 of 7,448

"Life is too short to drive a slow car."

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Posted By: stevethepirate On: 02-25-2008 @ 12:34:27     Reply | Top | Edit

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a quick editorial on mccain, written by yours truly.

With Republican candidate John McCain’s current monopoly over the Republican primaries, voters are looking to the remaining primaries to attempt to predict who will win the GOP’s nomination for the November election. Although McCain currently needs less than three hundred delegates to gain the nomination, opponent Mike Huckabee has willfully declared his intention to remain in the race. One important question in the minds of voters is whether John McCain will be able to maintain the lead over his competition. With his mind set on the general election, McCain is currently doing all that he can to assure a victory, including attempting to cross partisan borders with the goal of winning over some of the uncommitted moderate or independent voters.
One quandary in the minds of these voters lies in the future of the war in Iraq. McCain preaches one of the more controversial stances regarding this sensitive issue, fully supporting the war in general and the troop surge. This type of support has been known to alienate candidates from voters who classify themselves as being more moderate, or nonpartisan. According to an Associated Press survey, two thirds of people surveyed disapprove of the way that the Bush administration has dealt with the war. This discontent could prove a decisive factor in nominating a candidate who proposes a drastic change in the US’ policy regarding the situation in Iraq.
Former Republican candidate, Mitt Romney, held similar views to frontrunner John McCain, but was forced to resign from the race due to a lack of support. McCain’s two sons, Jack and Jimmy, have helped their father win over some of the moderate constituents. These two young men, aged 21 and 19 respectively, are both active in the United States military. Mitt Romney, in contrast, has five sons between the ages of 26 and 37, none of whom have ever had any intention of serving in their country’s military. This is a detrimental turnoff for voters who are being told to support a war that is being fueled by the bodies and minds of their children, and not by the families associated with the legislation itself. In addition to his sons, McCain also served his time in Vietnam. This may be just what he needs in order to recoup some of the lost support from moderates who do not agree with his plan to stay in Iraq for as long as it takes, even if that is more than one hundred years.
McCain has tailored his stances on a range of issues in order to bridge partisan gaps as well. Despite evidence on issues such as his tenacious pro-life voting record, he has demonstrated that he thinks for himself and not his Republican Party affiliation. Out of mere speculation, John McCain has the Republican nomination because he is catering to everyone that potentially shares his beliefs, including those outside the traditionally defined Republican constituency. This is what differentiates him from his fellow Republican candidates who have devoted their campaigns to pleasing the GOP, rather than making political sacrifices in order to advance to the general election. In a state like Ohio, where the majority of voters are not religious conservatives, don’t hold your breath waiting for Mike Huckabee to get the nomination.


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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2048599

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Posted By: ExtinctWS6 On: 03-31-2008 @ 00:02:27     Reply | Top | Edit

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John McCain FTW.

I'll put money on it.
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Posted By: blackcamaro On: 05-12-2008 @ 15:28:52     Reply | Top | Edit

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RON PAUL

www.ronpaul2008.com
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GT84BCZ28 "LT1 created the earth in 6 days and on the 7th it blew out its Opti"-Barefoot Badass

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