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An honest 305 tpi or 350 tpi question...

Posted By: mrcrazyhimself On: 01-17-2009 @ 18:48:49         Reply | Edit
I've been looking into getting another 3rd gen since my 4th gen 2000 Camaro has been an absolute nightmare. All the little shit has gone wrong with it and cost me $800 bucks just to get a fuel pump replaced on it. On my 89' firebird, it cost me $200-$250 and the car could take a wayyy better beating.

Back to the real question...After doing some research, I found that the 87 to 89-90 GTA's came in 2 models. 305 TPI with 215 hp and 290 tq and optional 5 speed and T-tops. or the 350 TPI with 230 hp and 330 torque. I have seen some 350s with t-tops but not that many because I believe they thought the torque would bend the frame.

In my mind, the 305 matched with a 5 speed ( which puts a little more power to the wheels) vs. the 350 TPI with the 700R4 4 Speed would be a pretty even match?

My thinking is that I can readily find nice shape 305, 5 speed GTA's and possibly do a swap fairly simple without having to drill holes and stuff for a manual in a 350TPI.

It jsut seems people dog the 305 TPI even it doesn't really seem all that bad compared to the 350?
--
2000 Camaro- 3.8, 5- Speed. Ram Air Hood (non functional at the moment)
SOLD-1989 Pontiac Firebird with 2.8

Posted By: roubenbird On: 01-18-2009 @ 08:40:16     Reply | Top | Edit
I've been in both and they seem equivalent in the seat of the pants. You could probably pick up a car with a 305 for cheaper too. If you are not looking to mod it or anything I really think that the 305 is a fine motor.

If you are going to swap in the 350 and keep the trans, you'll have to sort of baby it or it will not last long.
--
Being rebuilt, It'll take a while:

WS6 3o5 TBI 88' Formula, 670cfm Holley Projection Throttle Body Holley Projection Intake Mainfold, Underdrive Pulley,Dual Snorkle & Factory Cowl Induction,now with short straight pipes, UMI Subframe connectors, Fourth Gen seats, Three row Radiator, Posi rear end (2.73),TPI heads, 1.6 roller rockers
15.543 @ 88.21mph

Posted By: mrcrazyhimself On: 01-18-2009 @ 10:01:29     Reply | Top | Edit
I would was thinking of maybe doing things like gears and maybe exhaust since those could be used no matter what application. I'm not looking for a super speed demon but more of a nice classic car that you don't see all the time. I rarely see 3rd gens in Buffalo NY.
--
2000 Camaro- 3.8, 5- Speed. Ram Air Hood (non functional at the moment)
SOLD-1989 Pontiac Firebird with 2.8

Posted By: roubenbird On: 01-18-2009 @ 10:10:10     Reply | Top | Edit
They can be used but when you put the 350 in, the transmission will not stand up to it.

A 305 with headers and good exhaust will move well enough for a DD that looks good and performs decently.
--
Being rebuilt, It'll take a while:

WS6 3o5 TBI 88' Formula, 670cfm Holley Projection Throttle Body Holley Projection Intake Mainfold, Underdrive Pulley,Dual Snorkle & Factory Cowl Induction,now with short straight pipes, UMI Subframe connectors, Fourth Gen seats, Three row Radiator, Posi rear end (2.73),TPI heads, 1.6 roller rockers
15.543 @ 88.21mph

Posted By: GOATS2QUICK On: 01-18-2009 @ 18:35:30     Reply | Top | Edit
yeah, i would be concerned with the stick shift holding up.im guessing they didnt put them behind the 350 for a reason.(breakage)?
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Posted By: irocdroptop On: 01-18-2009 @ 19:15:50     Reply | Top | Edit
There are no tranny issues with a 350 mated to a 5sp. The reason there are no 350 5 speed cars is they could not pass body flex standards with T tops and GM did not want to give up T tops. The 305 auto and 305 5 speed engines are not the same. The 305 stick has 350 heads and cam. 10 less rated horses but near identical at the rear wheels. I have converted several IROC's from 305 to L98 350's from vettes (alumimum head) with mods to 300+ horse and have not damaged a 5 speed yet.

Posted By: mrcrazyhimself On: 01-19-2009 @ 00:33:17     Reply | Top | Edit
I haven't actually driven a 305 TPI with a 5 Speed yet. My only benchmark to speed is my 3.8 because its the fastest car i've driven. I know, sad...lol. If the 305 isn't so bad, I might just mod that if the miles are nice. I'd only be looking for a nice, streetable car maybe in the 13's?
--
2000 Camaro- 3.8, 5- Speed. Ram Air Hood (non functional at the moment)
SOLD-1989 Pontiac Firebird with 2.8

Posted By: roubenbird On: 01-19-2009 @ 10:36:32     Reply | Top | Edit
Well, there are a few things wrong with irocdroptop's post. I'd kind of ignore his "facts" and claims.

I'll say this... From what I have read and experienced the T5's do not stand up against the 350 with a lot of torque.

It is possible to get a 305 TPI in the 13's and still be streetable...

91GTA or something like that has done it on this board with only a few mods and some small hits of spray.

Do a search on him.

--
Being rebuilt, It'll take a while:

WS6 3o5 TBI 88' Formula, 670cfm Holley Projection Throttle Body Holley Projection Intake Mainfold, Underdrive Pulley,Dual Snorkle & Factory Cowl Induction,now with short straight pipes, UMI Subframe connectors, Fourth Gen seats, Three row Radiator, Posi rear end (2.73),TPI heads, 1.6 roller rockers
15.543 @ 88.21mph

Posted By: Green97TAMachine On: 01-20-2009 @ 00:27:47     Reply | Top | Edit



The t5's that came in the third gens are notouriously weak and can barelt handle the hp/tq the LB9 (305 TPI) made. There are a handfull of people who have been lucky and had a t5 stand up to a L98 (350 TPI) or something similar, but it's EXTREMELY uncommon for the t5 to last any amount of time with a 350 in front of it. Hell, go drive a LB9 t5 car and do a couple clutch dumps and/or power shifts and see if it doesn't shit the bed on you right then and there...odds are it probably will.
--

1997 Mystic Teal Trans Am
Best Time: 13.984@102.99Mph

Posted By: mrcrazyhimself On: 01-20-2009 @ 01:06:51     Reply | Top | Edit
My main reason for going back to an older car was basically whenever I had to get my firebird fixed, it was dirt cheap because the mechanic could be blind and still be able to work on the older cars. With my 2000 camaro, it cost $800 damn bucks just for a fuel pump. On my firebird, it was $200 when I got it done. All the little shit goes wrong on these newer cars and I hate it. So even if I wanted to upgrade the tranny, I could prob find a nice used 5 speed and upgrade.

I'd want to stay away from NOS because I think of it as optional power. I don't need a monster but something that can get 0 to 80 pretty fast would be good enough for me to have fun with and be reliable to drive daily
--
2000 Camaro- 3.8, 5- Speed. Ram Air Hood (non functional at the moment)
SOLD-1989 Pontiac Firebird with 2.8

Posted By: roubenbird On: 01-20-2009 @ 11:11:57     Reply | Top | Edit
The TPI with the 5speeds are decently fun to drive and torquey.

Actually, you really shouldn't of had too much of a price difference between the fuel pumps because they are in the exact same position. I would say that you were lucky the first time around really....

It is usually expensive to have the Fuel pump changed on a 3rd gen.
--
Being rebuilt, It'll take a while:

WS6 3o5 TBI 88' Formula, 670cfm Holley Projection Throttle Body Holley Projection Intake Mainfold, Underdrive Pulley,Dual Snorkle & Factory Cowl Induction,now with short straight pipes, UMI Subframe connectors, Fourth Gen seats, Three row Radiator, Posi rear end (2.73),TPI heads, 1.6 roller rockers
15.543 @ 88.21mph

Posted By: Pocket On: 01-20-2009 @ 22:30:41     Reply | Top | Edit
You are buying an old used car because repairs are cheaper?

Stop buying POS 4th gens and you wont have those problems

Posted By: mrcrazyhimself On: 01-21-2009 @ 12:38:45     Reply | Top | Edit
As lame as it is, my dad had 2nd and 3rd gens his whole life but when I was born got rid of them. I just have a thing for older cars. Less computers and more simple to repair.

I bought my 2000 Camaro with 48K and all the little shit has been going wrong. I'm not saying thats all of them but I just get a sence of cheapness from them where as my 89' firebird was a tank and almost any repair I took it in for was something minor and no more than $200-$300
--
2000 Camaro- 3.8, 5- Speed. Ram Air Hood (non functional at the moment)
SOLD-1989 Pontiac Firebird with 2.8

Posted By: Pocket On: 01-21-2009 @ 22:14:33     Reply | Top | Edit
News flash, all 3rd gens have an ECM

Also, 3rd and 4th gen gastanks interchange. You got jipped on the repair bill. And on that note, since you cant do something simple like a fuel pump replacement, why does it make a hill-of-beans difference how easy/hard to work on each car is? You obviously arent doing the work yourself

Posted By: mrcrazyhimself On: 01-24-2009 @ 11:38:58     Reply | Top | Edit
I called about 3 places and they all quoted me about the same. I'm not mechanically inclined at all right now but I hope to learn atleast somethings. The guy who fixed my car has always been good to me and he said in order to get to the fuel pump, the exhaust and rear had to be dropped in order to get to it. Maybe its just cause I had a really good experiance with my Firebird and I bought that with 90k for $2000 in great shape and it was always good to me. I buy a 2000 with 48k and all the little stuff goes wrong. I'm not saying all 4th gens are crap cause i'd find it hard to believe there would even be this board if all of these GM cars fell apart.
--
2000 Camaro- 3.8, 5- Speed. Ram Air Hood (non functional at the moment)
SOLD-1989 Pontiac Firebird with 2.8

Posted By: Pocket On: 01-24-2009 @ 18:35:12     Reply | Top | Edit
You paid $2k for an 89 V6?

Right...

Posted By: mrcrazyhimself On: 01-24-2009 @ 22:58:14     Reply | Top | Edit
I live in Buffalo NY, Prices are wayyy different up here. To find sports cars that aren't all rusted out from salt from our snow is near impossible. It was a well taken care of car and very good shape.
--
2000 Camaro- 3.8, 5- Speed. Ram Air Hood (non functional at the moment)
SOLD-1989 Pontiac Firebird with 2.8

Posted By: Pocket On: 01-25-2009 @ 03:48:10     Reply | Top | Edit
Thanks to the joy of the internet people have learned that you dont have to buy a car in a 2 mile radius anymore


Posted By: mrcrazyhimself On: 01-26-2009 @ 18:59:54     Reply | Top | Edit
Whats ur deal? Im a newbie and don't know jack shit about cars. My 89 was 2 grand in awesome shape. What else are you gunna buy in that price range? its all I could afford and it was way better than driving a shit cavalier or something. For 2 grand, in 3 years barely had to get much done to it and it never left me stranded. Doesn't sound like too bad a car to me
--
2000 Camaro- 3.8, 5- Speed. Ram Air Hood (non functional at the moment)
SOLD-1989 Pontiac Firebird with 2.8

Posted By: Pocket On: 01-27-2009 @ 02:18:45     Reply | Top | Edit
I wouldnt be doing my job if I wasnt giving new people a hard time

You know you like it, dont lie

Posted By: roubenbird On: 01-27-2009 @ 11:23:25     Reply | Top | Edit
It's true.
--
Being rebuilt, It'll take a while:

WS6 3o5 TBI 88' Formula, 670cfm Holley Projection Throttle Body Holley Projection Intake Mainfold, Underdrive Pulley,Dual Snorkle & Factory Cowl Induction,now with short straight pipes, UMI Subframe connectors, Fourth Gen seats, Three row Radiator, Posi rear end (2.73),TPI heads, 1.6 roller rockers
15.543 @ 88.21mph

Posted By: mrcrazyhimself On: 01-28-2009 @ 20:49:21     Reply | Top | Edit
I've been around this forum quite a while trying to learn new things. I'm not one to ask about mechanical things about cars and I admit that. I haven't driven either a 305 with a 5 speed or a 350 with an 700R4 auto. Thats why i'm asking and getting opinions
--
2000 Camaro- 3.8, 5- Speed. Ram Air Hood (non functional at the moment)
SOLD-1989 Pontiac Firebird with 2.8

Posted By: roubenbird On: 01-28-2009 @ 23:44:59     Reply | Top | Edit
I'd just get something you like and is available. Price might play a toll too. If you find a decent car with the 305 snatch it. Same for the 350
--
Being rebuilt, It'll take a while:

WS6 3o5 TBI 88' Formula, 670cfm Holley Projection Throttle Body Holley Projection Intake Mainfold, Underdrive Pulley,Dual Snorkle & Factory Cowl Induction,now with short straight pipes, UMI Subframe connectors, Fourth Gen seats, Three row Radiator, Posi rear end (2.73),TPI heads, 1.6 roller rockers
15.543 @ 88.21mph

Posted By: IROCZman15 On: 02-04-2009 @ 22:54:12     Reply | Top | Edit
mrcrazy..

if you are looking for a kick ass 1987 GTA let me know

i know this isnt the classifieds section, but ...

my brother owns a 1987 trans am GTA with a corvette 350 TPI motor. its not a 5 speed as u were speaking about above, but the motor is supposodly done up. decked heads and a cam. i've never verified it though.

it is fast. lost of torque,..spins the 275's in the back at the hit of the throttle. black in color (was red) with a grey interior and digital display. asking $2,700.

just figured id throw it out there fr YOU or anyone else interested... located in NJ

again. i know its not the classified section, but i thoguht it was relevant enought to add to this particular post
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http://www.freewebs.com/iroczman15/
updated october 2008

Posted By: smknZ28 On: 02-12-2009 @ 16:00:40     Reply | Top | Edit
please do not bother putting a t-5trans behind a built 350, it will not hold up there is a reason why gm never put the 350tpi and the t5 in the same car, and I am speaking from experience as I have owned a 350 car with a t-5 that some idiot put in.But on the bright side if you have a car with the t-5 trans they can be easily swapped to a t-56 which you will not have any problems with
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88 Iroc 350TPI 700R4 no point in modding too slow..
Looking for 98-02z28

Posted By: Bruzer On: 03-13-2009 @ 08:07:41     Reply | Top | Edit
i put a t5 behind a 350, and raced the hell out of it 2. never had a problem. I think gm did that to cover their but in case the 350 torque started breaking the t5 down. but whatever, due it at your own risk. i did
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Posted By: roubenbird On: 03-14-2009 @ 12:02:59     Reply | Top | Edit
The old Corvette Motor swap. Classic

My fucking 305TBi would spin the tires no problem.


--
Being rebuilt, It'll take a while:

WS6 3o5 TBI 88' Formula, 670cfm Holley Projection Throttle Body Holley Projection Intake Mainfold, Underdrive Pulley,Dual Snorkle & Factory Cowl Induction,now with short straight pipes, UMI Subframe connectors, Fourth Gen seats, Three row Radiator, Posi rear end (2.73),TPI heads, 1.6 roller rockers
15.543 @ 88.21mph

Posted By: Pocket On: 03-14-2009 @ 13:43:10     Reply | Top | Edit
Strange how every 350 is a corvette engine, LS1's too


Posted By: Shift On: 03-15-2009 @ 00:02:19     Reply | Top | Edit
I have a Corvette engine
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Posted By: Pocket On: 03-15-2009 @ 00:35:41     Reply | Top | Edit
Me too

And one of them really did come out of a corvette

Posted By: Bruzer On: 03-15-2009 @ 10:10:24     Reply | Top | Edit
Mrcrazy, good luck finding a 305 tpi 5sp. Thats what i have been on the search for. Lookin ofr a 91 or 92 z28, 305 5sp. I think i have found about 10 total in north america so far for sale.
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